Giants acquire Garko

Originally posted by UrsusVeritas:
bottom line...

we traded a prospect who was a few years away from making an impact, and may never pan out completely...

...for a legitimate and experienced 1st basemen who can spot start at catcher and OF, and who is immediatly the 2nd or 3rd best hitter in our lineup.

giants fans are way too obsessed with "prospects". I love some ofour young guys in the system, but we dont need 8 starting pitchers, and we do need bats.

awesome trade, end of story.

Lets hope you are right. We all want Garko to be great. As far as prospects go .. it isnt just Giants fans that value their teams prospects. Look at the Phillies and Cards right now. They could both go after Doc Halliday and land him by trading their top prospects. If either team landed him they would instantly be the favorites to win it all. But.. they are not pulling the trigger and hesitant to give away their top guys. Its just the nature of the game.

Baseball's salary structure rewards a team for keeping their top talent because they control them for several years before they can go to arbitration and go to free agency.

Originally posted by Giantjohn:
Lets hope you are right. We all want Garko to be great. As far as prospects go .. it isnt just Giants fans that value their teams prospects. Look at the Phillies and Cards right now. They could both go after Doc Halliday and land him by trading their top prospects. If either team landed him they would instantly be the favorites to win it all. But.. they are not pulling the trigger and hesitant to give away their top guys. Its just the nature of the game.

Baseball's salary structure rewards a team for keeping their top talent because they control them for several years before they can go to arbitration and go to free agency.

Let's not forget the atmosphere in those towns though.

The Cards run St Louis. They have one of the most rabid fan bases and the games best player hands down.
They have won it all just recently and as long as they have Albert they will be contender every year of his career with minimal adjustments and the retention of there current staffs.

The Phillies have allstars at practically every position and ARE the current Champs. Philly PHANs although PHickle are PHAT supporters of winners and I don't see them struggling to compete in the Nl East for sometime with what they have in place either.

We however have a rebuild team strugglng to match previously set unrealistic attendance goals and a general malaise among "vanilla" fans in what is traditionally a "baseball bandwagoneer" town. We have never WON the title needed to turn the town onto the teams side. Only the teases of 1962 1989 2002.

Even one of those would make the the City feel different and end that feeling of having to see A's fans with t-shirts like... 3 World Championships/ZERO SPLASH HITS.

We need to be a little more proactive in the short term if only to spur a little revenue to cover years of bad contracts and keep the franchise capable of contiuning to be competative.

I bet you that even though we have a lightweight everday lineup we still will be paying luxury tax to the league due to payroll rather than getting a check like the A's, Cleveland, or the Pirates and we are still in the race while they are sitting 2009 out.

Originally posted by UrsusVeritas:
bottom line...

we traded a prospect who was a few years away from making an impact, and may never pan out completely...

...for a legitimate and experienced 1st basemen who can spot start at catcher and OF, and who is immediatly the 2nd or 3rd best hitter in our lineup.

giants fans are way too obsessed with "prospects". I love some ofour young guys in the system, but we dont need 8 starting pitchers, and we do need bats.

awesome trade, end of story.

Not an awsome trade. Wow it just shows how bad this hitting line-up really is if he(Garko) becomes the 2nd best hitter in our line-up. I would much rather have traded Pucetas, Fred Lewis, or Sadowski then the best pitcher at San Jose.

Originally posted by ESaady:
Ehh. It's really not that good of a deal. Unless Garko comes out and starts smashing balls into the bleacher he really isn't much better than Ishikawa. Plus Ishi's glove is a lot better than Garko's.

Why doesn't Garko just buy a new better glove?

Originally posted by UrsusVeritas:
bottom line...

we traded a prospect who was a few years away from making an impact, and may never pan out completely...

...for a legitimate and experienced 1st basemen who can spot start at catcher and OF, and who is immediatly the 2nd or 3rd best hitter in our lineup.

giants fans are way too obsessed with "prospects". I love some ofour young guys in the system, but we dont need 8 starting pitchers, and we do need bats.

awesome trade, end of story.

That's a good point. You can only have some many aces in a rotation. If you need a bat and have depth in pitching to get it, then do it. That's the reason Sabean drafts piitching every year - to do these kind of deals.

Originally posted by mayo63:
That's a good point. You can only have some many aces in a rotation. If you need a bat and have depth in pitching to get it, then do it. That's the reason Sabean drafts piitching every year - to do these kind of deals.

That would be a heck of an argument if it was in fact true. However, it simply is not the case. Sabean does not have a track record of drafting pitching and then trading it for major league bats. In fact, I can only come up with 2 deals where he has done that in 13 years and you wont like the results:

1) Traded Joe Nathan, Francsico Liriano, and Boof Bonser for AJ Pierzynski OUCH
2) Traded Jeremy Accardo for Shea Hillebrand DOUBLE OUCH

Trading for Garko was fine. I just think they could have traded a couple of lesser prospects.

Originally posted by Giantjohn:
That would be a heck of an argument if it was in fact true. However, it simply is not the case. Sabean does not have a track record of drafting pitching and then trading it for major league bats. In fact, I can only come up with 2 deals where he has done that in 13 years and you wont like the results:

1) Traded Joe Nathan, Francsico Liriano, and Boof Bonser for AJ Pierzynski OUCH
2) Traded Jeremy Accardo for Shea Hillebrand DOUBLE OUCH

Trading for Garko was fine. I just think they could have traded a couple of lesser prospects.

I'm not saying he's had a good record on these trades, just that it's been their philosophy.

Originally posted by mayo63:
I'm not saying he's had a good record on these trades, just that it's been their philosophy.

And I am saying that isnt the case. If you have only made 3 deals in 13 years where you trade minor league pitching for major league bats it can hardly be your organization philosophy. I have heard this before but the facts just do not prove it out.

as long as barnes doesnt turn into a legit pitcher i will be happy
i mean hes in single A right?
eh

Originally posted by Giantjohn:
And I am saying that isnt the case. If you have only made 3 deals in 13 years where you trade minor league pitching for major league bats it can hardly be your organization philosophy. I have heard this before but the facts just do not prove it out.

I agree with you the facts don't support the conclusion, but the organization certainly hasn't used the early draft for prospective hitters, and rightly so, when you see the amount they've discovered and developed within the organization.

Recently, only Rich comes to mind when I think of position guys that weren't contributers with another team before being everday players here. So if not at the minor league level it seems they trade ptiching like the busts I mentioned earlier for the fill-ins the put around the free agents.

Waste of free agent money is far worse an organizational problem the bonehaed pitching for hitting deals.

Zito, Benitez, Renteria only top the recent list but it's been rife long before that.

Bonds was such a Humongus bargain in terms of generated revenue, and botton line it's a business you're running.

Vogelsong Jensen and Armando Rios Got us Schmiddy. Perhaps the only winner but a huge one.

Good pickup, maybe not a powerhouse hitter, but another reliable bat to add into the lineup. Also more stable working the base than Ishi tended to be.

Originally posted by LUser:
I agree with you the facts don't support the conclusion, but the organization certainly hasn't used the early draft for prospective hitters, and rightly so, when you see the amount they've discovered and developed within the organization.

Recently, only Rich comes to mind when I think of position guys that weren't contributers with another team before being everday players here. So if not at the minor league level it seems they trade ptiching like the busts I mentioned earlier for the fill-ins the put around the free agents.

Waste of free agent money is far worse an organizational problem the bonehaed pitching for hitting deals.

Zito, Benitez, Renteria only top the recent list but it's been rife long before that.

Bonds was such a Humongus bargain in terms of generated revenue, and botton line it's a business you're running.

Vogelsong Jensen and Armando Rios Got us Schmiddy. Perhaps the only winner but a huge one.

torrelba/foppert for randy winn

Originally posted by SanDiegoGiant:
Not an awsome trade. Wow it just shows how bad this hitting line-up really is if he(Garko) becomes the 2nd best hitter in our line-up. I would much rather have traded Pucetas, Fred Lewis, or Sadowski then the best pitcher at San Jose.

Hey maybe someone will take Zito to, if were just unloading our crap on other teams.
Why didn't Sabean offer Lewis for Garko strait up

I understand that Barnes was a good pitcher in the minors, but with Cain and Timmy still in their early 20s and Bumgarner and Alderson coming up, I think our pitching will be set for years to come. Let's not forget Sanchez, who IMO, will be a breakout player next year.

Originally posted by LeadFarmer:
Hey maybe someone will take Zito to, if were just unloading our crap on other teams.
Why didn't Sabean offer Lewis for Garko strait up

When dealing with other teams you have to offer what they need not what you want to purge.

The Indians are pitching starved and hitter (particularly outfield) heavy. They have a better player in Ben Francisco who may have been cut if a Garko wasn't moved before the deadline and are looking to unload last years Cy Young Cliff Lee rather than pay him Ace type big money. They have Jake Westbrook coming back soon and until the roster expands can't tap the players they want to evaluate.

They unloaded Casey Blake and Sabathia last year and Garko this just to get future arms to compete with a guy like Fausto Carmona for the roster. They don't need a project player like Freddy.

They're bullpen is a regressive mess after sporting a great era last year and they dealt one of their stronger member in Rapheal Betancourt to the Rockies rather than pay him either.

The Cleveland area is fairly depressed economically and they just have to cut payroll almost every year they don't look like contenders by this month.

No one will take Zito at his cost and terms, even the Yankees who spend like no tomorrow.