is it sad? anniversary of 756

so watching intentional talk today, one of my favorite sports shows even though they dont really show the Giants that much love (even though chris rose would prolly still be on the web doing the cheap seats if Brian Wilson wasnt such a regular). one thing that got to me again was, they asked if it was sad that baseball does not celebrate the anniversary of Bonds hitting 756. i thought...........yeah i never really noticed that it wasnt. rose said that everyone knows the date Hank Aaron broke Ruth's mark, what team he did it against and the pitcher....but noone even really knows that bonds did it. kevin millar said it was sad that it was broken by Bonds and it was bad for baseball.

a cople months ago im watching the yankees play and iirc bob costas was the announcer for the game. alex rod came to bat and they were talking about the number of HR hes had in his career and then costas says " bonds numbers were bogus, just bogus" and im like......youre talking about a guy that admitted to using PED's and nobody cares but because it was Barry it was bogus. it seems like that is really the logic behind this whole thing. everyone else we forgive, bt no not barry.

as far as im concerned, bonds was one of the greatest hitters of all time, even before the whole "roid generation". if anyone reads this since there is four of us on this forum, what are your thoughts, are the giants stained by this, is baseball stained or do you think like i do that all of baseball is decrepit and needs to adapt and stop living in 1930. no friggen asterisks and that all the players that were caught held to the same degree and not everyone AND then Barry Bonds

I think people are hypocrites when it's a black man tbh. And I'm white. When Aaron did it he was receiving death threats. Bonds does it in the middle of the Steroid era and everyone is quick to deny based on nothing but speculation and innuendo. It was NEVER proven that Bonds actually used steroids or HGH. He admitted to using a clear substance but said he was told it was flax seed oil and that he used a cream substance and was told that it was an Arthritic Balm.

I've taken flax seed oil. It's clear. I've used Arthritic balm (Icy Hot) and it's a cream. So I guess according to the Government and all the fans who let their panties get into a twist over steroids, I must be a roid abuser. They say that nobody gainst weight? I say wait until their asses get old and look at their fathers if they doubt they are going to gain weight. Bobby Bonds had a helluva large melon. And he put on quite a bit of weight after 30. What we saw Bonds going through IMHO was more genetically related than Steroid. I'm not saying that Bonds never used but the prosecution's case against Bonds was thinner than the Ethereal plane. Their main exhibit was a calendar with the initials BB in it. How many BBs' are there in all sports in the world? That's not proof that's conjecture. The only other thing they had was a woman who it's been proven she was still carrying a grudge against Bonds and it's not like she was an MD who knows what Steroids are. You'd think that if Bonds really was taking this stuff there would be some evidence that she pilfered without his knowing about it(there wasn't) or in order to make sure she kept getting pampered to the style she became accustomed to that she would have opened a Safe Deposit Box and let Bonds know the Gravy Train hasn't come to a complete stop yet. Really all they had was her word.

Personally I think that anyone that celebrates known users on one side and shuns suspected users needs to go back to school and learn some common sense. It's entirely possible he did but he's still not copping to it and Anderson went to jail 2 or 3 times "for BB", Bonds isn't and didn't pay the man to do so. Everyone knows that Bonds has always had a stingy nature so far as money goes unless it was a charity donation.

It was a kangaroo judgement based on the Judge's biased instruction that even convicted Bonds of anything. Bonds rambling in court had nothing to do with whether he was guilty or not. The Judge instructed the jury that if he didn't answer the question satisfactorily then the jury was duty bound to come back with a guilty verdict. Whether or not there was anything there or not.

LaRussa knew Mac was using. He knew Canseco was too. The owners knew and just raked in the money and benifitted from it. So long as the owners were making money on Steroids at every position on the field, then fans cannot be repulsed by the steroid era. They gave their cash willingly. :)

~Ceadder

very well written, i for one agree on everything you said. he was never found guilty of using PEDs, his case was made on obstruction of justice saying that he lied. did he use? probably, but everyone was, including most of the major pitchers during that time, he still excelled. the names were reported from a survey that was supposed to be confidential. if they thought it was going to get to the media, no one would have admitted to anything on that survey. that list never should have been allowed in court, sort of like doctor patient confidentiality. on the other side, like you said, the managers knew about it, the owners knew, the commissioner knew, BASEBALL knew about it, yet there were no punishments handed out. the McGuire Sosa race saved baseball, as long as they were making money it was brushed under the carpet. until the government found out.......

Bonds never swung at balls, only strikes. he was the most patient hitter to ever play the game. from 2007-2011 i was around a lot of guys that used steroids, there strength increased and stamina, but none of them could account for "seeing better" lol. these people just need to look at his career numbers, he consistently hit 30+ HR from 1992-2004 and he was still hitting for power before that with PIT. the only times he didnt put up 25+ were years that he missed time due to injury and above all that he played a lot of games in candlestick.

costas said that his numbers were inflated because of illegal substances. then after the commercial brake he says that he wants to make it clear, that even without any enhancements Barry Bonds was still one of the greatest hitters of all time. to me it hurts because this i love this team and its history sholud not be forgotten. its hard enough to have the east coast bias reporting on sports. the phillies are way out of the race, just got rid of half there team and the media is saying they still have a shot lol. regardless of how they perceive what happened, it should be something that is celebrated by the giants and baseball. and no there should not be any asterisks in the hall of fame just like Maris with the Ruth record. Bonds should be inducted into the Hall Of Fame and Pete Rose and shoeless Joe Jackson should have the ban lifted and also be inducted.

Well, they still dont have proof that bonds took anything, and im standing by that till its proven. It is extremely sad that no one is really talking about it and you would have to admit if bonds played on the spankeeys or redsux or anywhere ono the east coast - even with the steroroid scandle surrounding him that they would have handled it differently, barry wouldnt of been made out as such a villan as he is portrayed. it is a shame. and i dont care if there is only 4 of us in this forum - its better than having 1000 idiots saying random crap with no baseball sense. plus its like our own little giants baseball talk club lol :) my ending statement is Barry Bonds is a FOR SURE 100% a hall of famer and go GIANTS!

everyone in the world should have watched espn first take this morning. skip bayless (just went from most hated to most loved reporter) and rob parker broke it down and explained everything exactly as the rest of the world should look at it. i recorded the segment on my dvr but am in no way shape or form capable of getting onto the intraweb lol. i also looked for it on youtube but could not find it, its probably to soon to be posted idk. if you want (and its ok) i can type the narrative


and yes i guess its cool that it is kinda like a baseball club, it just sucks cuz there is not much to read or keep up on. i spend A LOT of time following the giants and i run out of material on a daily basis so i just wish more (educated and non arrogant) were involved, or the ones that are wold speak out a little bit more.

Sorry kodiak, I will NEVER agree on Rose. Joe Jackson yes, he's the only guy that gave 100% through the Series. How anyone can penalize that guy in the modern era knowing this is beyond me.

But Rose not only bet on Baseball breaking the rule resulting of the Black Sox scandal, he lied about right up to his final year of eligibility to get voted into Cooperstown AND his book was launched on the day when other Hall of Famers were named as being accepted into Cooperstown. Sorry, but that disrespectful sumbish can stay on the outside looking in for all of eternity. If you disrespect the game like Rose did you don't deserve squat no matter how good you were as a player.

Also if you need a refresher on what betting on a sport you play in or officiate just look at the NBA and the betting scandal there. Personally I don't think that betting should be allowed for ANY athlete while they are playing a sport. It's too easy to get caught up in fixing as it is. No need to allow the temptation to exist at all. If they want to bet they can wait until they're out of the game for good imho.

~Ceadder

well i agree to an extent. the major thing for me is exactly what rob parker who is a HOF voter used as a defense for a case like bonds. to keep guys out of the hall of fame is what is going to destroy it. losing the history and the names of the greats is what i am most concerned about. petes case is a major offense that was singular to himself and punishment delegated only to him so i can see where you are coming from there. with bonds and the steroid issue, they are only penalizing the guys that broke records, and also it was an era, everyone was doing it. it was baseball at the time, just like parker said, it was an era, you take it for what it was and then you move on. he said that no one takes away ruths numbers because he played in the segregation era and never faced black or latino players. he also said that if these guys dont get voted in, then the yankees and red sox should be stripped of their WC because they had known and admitted users on the roster. it was a very good segment that hit a ton of points right on the head and should be the mind set that more people have towards the topic like i do and you seem to agree as well. btw go giants tonight!

Man Kodiak I wish I saw that segment you keep referring.... I hate that bonds isn't a shoe in for the hof... There is no reason he shouldn't be! First of all like its been said before.... No proof! No conviction! Suspicion or not, he's innocent until proven guilty!!!! Second.... Even if he admitted to it, it is my understanding that it wasn't even "against the rules" yet! Which is why they did the annonomous testing to see if it was a problem. Third, PED's that Conte supposedly supplied "BB" weren't the normal steroids everyone was used to. They were designer PED's and not even illegal by government standards yet. It's like if someone came up to you and said dude if you took this, legal supplement you'd increase your work performance by 50% and get a huge raise.... I think we'd all do it! And last, baseball owners and management were aware of what was going on..... And did nothing.... Because they didn't care because baseball became relevant again. That strike year killed baseball.... And the steroid era revived it... But the owners and management just sit back and collect paychecks and let bonds take the heat! Screw that.... Bonds deserves this!! So what if he was a dick, Babe Ruth wasn't the most pleasant man either. It pisses me off that these sports writers hold the key to something so valuable to a star like Bonds! It's like anytime they can find something on someone that makes them..... Human.... They give that reason as to why they shouldn't be allowed in. Barry Bonds is one of the greatest ever! If he doesn't make it in the HOF is a joke and is too political. Once again Bonds' steroid use is 100% speculation!

Originally posted by kodiakgiant:
well i agree to an extent. the major thing for me is exactly what rob parker who is a HOF voter used as a defense for a case like bonds. to keep guys out of the hall of fame is what is going to destroy it. losing the history and the names of the greats is what i am most concerned about. petes case is a major offense that was singular to himself and punishment delegated only to him so i can see where you are coming from there. with bonds and the steroid issue, they are only penalizing the guys that broke records, and also it was an era, everyone was doing it. it was baseball at the time, just like parker said, it was an era, you take it for what it was and then you move on. he said that no one takes away ruths numbers because he played in the segregation era and never faced black or latino players. he also said that if these guys dont get voted in, then the yankees and red sox should be stripped of their WC because they had known and admitted users on the roster. it was a very good segment that hit a ton of points right on the head and should be the mind set that more people have towards the topic like i do and you seem to agree as well. btw go giants tonight!

Link to the article kodiak? I'd be interested in reading it.

~Ceadder

it was not an article, it was on espn first take this morning. like i said i recorded the short segment on my dvr but have no idea how to upload it and then post it, im not really computer smart when it comes to that stuff. ive been looking all day on youtube for it but cant find the video. hopefully it gets posted.

alas, just found a video

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=8246933

I'm so glad you found that.... I just watched it.... WOW! That was awesome!

Originally posted by Pepper:
I'm so glad you found that.... I just watched it.... WOW! That was awesome!

are you being sarcastic?

Thanks kodiak, one of the few times I actually find myself agreeing with Bayless.

The writers need to stick to cold hard facts and leave innuendo to the fans.

Even with Steroids Bonds was the greatest hitter of all time. Forget eras. All Time.

Nobody could see the ball as well as Bonds, no other player in the history of the game got two to three free Bags a game from every opponent they faced. Not even Aaron.

There is Bonds and then there is everybody else.

One of the things I've always said, was that without Steroids, Canseco and Mark McGuire would not have gotten the A's to the '89 Series on the A's Regular Season Record. Take that further and as was stated in that Video, once you start holding players out then the only way to make this justifiable is to vacate all Championships won by teams that knowingly fielded juicers. The A's did(I don't care what Larussa says, he knew) the Yankees did and the Sox did.

My personal feeling on Steroids is taking them didn't make nobodies better players. These players would have been solid anyway. And nobody is going to make the owners give back the MILLIONS they made with Juicers on their teams. Why take it out on the Players for using a substance to give them better odds at hitting for Power and help their team win games. Yeah they got paid for it, but in the end they didn't do anything that their predecessors would not have done in their place. Not even Honus Wagner who didn't smoke or drink but consumed the original formula Coca Cola. The stuff with Cocaine as its secret ingredient.

Doesn't make it right but it's not like any writer can point at ANY Major League entrant in the HoF and say with Certainty there are no "cheaters" in Cooperstown.

~Ceadder

i also like to point out to people that ruth committed adultery and mantle was an alcoholic etc. i always think about what those guys would look like in todays game. just look at what happened to tiger woods after that whole deal. and the leagues would not allow those guys to go unpunished for stuff like that. and Ty Cobb being racist? im not 100% sure if that was true but do you think he would have played for anyone nowadays? it was an era, a different era, and i dont see anyone punishing or scolding past players for abuse and actions they committed.

just so happens that the greatest hitter of all time was a Giant and not some east coast team (yankees) and he broke records .so he is the poster child for something that was never proven he did and the one everyone points the finger at as the subject of punishment. and as far as the asterisks in cooperstown if he does make it? thats straight up crap, just like when they tried to do it to maris cuz he played in more games than ruth.