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Are We Buyers or Sellers?

  • LUser
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Originally posted by SanDiegoGiant:
Your points are well taken. I bring up LaRoche just because his numbers are so glaringly better than anyone on the Giants but Pablo. Do I really want LaRoche? Probably not, but if the Giants want to make a move(s) towards the W.C. this year and not mortgage the future, then its a move that should have been made.

The move that really potentially scares me that I could see the Giants making now that Renteria is hurting and 2b is a revolving door..... is....trading for the Bucs double play duo (Wilson and Sanchez). Now that the Bucs are not going to resign the two. I could see Sabean making a panic move if the boys get swept today and then lose minimum 2 of 3 in Denver, becuase guess who is coming to town on Monday folks......you guessed it, those Pirates who just made our bats look anemic and what better time to pull of a trade with a team who's currently playing in your ballpark. Sabean i feel would give up way too much.

I think its time for Sabean and Bochy to go. Sabean continually signs wahsed up or guys who don't fit into AT&T parks mold. Did he really think Rowand was going to hit 30 bombs after playing in Cracker Jackville in Philly. The defense and the leadership is great, but for 12 million for 5 years? Barry Zito enough said. And now the last year's signing of Renteria for 9 million a year. You have got to be kidding me.

Bochy this guy cannot put out a line-up to give the Giants the best chance to win. First example, the line-up in Pittsburgh the first game back, has Aurilla and Torres starting! What the @#%* is that? His lefty's can't hit lefty's garbage is tiresome. I say if we are going to go young then bring up Decker who has managed a lot of the younger guys and get some youthful enthusiasm on this team instead of the fossil mentality that we have had for the last decade.

One last thing, I think if Holliday's agent was anyone but Boras, he would already be a Giant.

Lets keep our fingers crossed the boys wake up before its too late.

I don't know if you saw it in San Diego but the normally level headed Ray Ratto recently ejaculated this article one day before Bochy left Zito in to eat 9 earnies the day before the break.



http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...SPBG18MLRV.DTL


After reading I wrote a comment to him and said we should wait and see like Neukom planned all along. I really think Sabe's has his hands tied now and Neukom has to sign off on anything he may consider. Obviously the primo prospects are off limits in any deal and he'll make do with what they allow him to trade and hope to catch lightning.

In a way I feel sorry for Sabean under the last years of McGowan and a little sorry for Dusty Baker's plight at the end of 2002 despite his hubris.

Here's whatt I wrote Ray. (No reply) Wonder if he regrets the column.



In baseball circles Sabean is regarded as somewhat of a buffoon for his persistant gaffes in personnel decisions that have spanned these last 5 years of our descent intio mediocrity.

While he is rightly given a pass in not discussing the Zito deal (largely McGowans call) there's little to suggest his recent past decisions are the reason for the teams recent turnaround.

When you look back over them and his overall tenure in the job he hasn't made a stellar deal since Jason Schmidt. The fiasco's Ratto discusses regarding A.J., Benitez, Hillenbrand, require more than a flip dismissal as "being hamstrung by philosophy". After all doing your job means speaking up if you believe management is being careless or persueing the wrong course in development.

Certainly he WAS in the position of deferring to their wishes in keeping Barry the Ca$h Cow happy, but the endless string of overpriced broken down has beens he foisted on the payroll is laughable. From Eric Davis, through Dunston, to Ray Durham and a host of others- all have contributed less than their cost both on and off the field. Keeping Jose Castillo at 3rd for over a 1/2 season last year over Sandoval seems ludacris now and thinking Fred Lewis was anything more than a butcher in the field is even more distressing.

The off season moves including Renteria (8 Million) and supposed set-up man Howry (weakest in the pen) have been mediocre as well. Uribe has been a pleasant surprise in a limited role but he wasn't even rostered in spring. Other than the complete flame-out of Burriss and Frandsen he wouldn't even be on the team. He got a ton out of the Unit but we'll see how soon and at what strength he returns, and if you look at it the team has had vitually NO injuries or DL time to take away from their output.

If that is the kind of track record that requires renegotiation before the end of the season plays out, he's lucky to be still employed by the paper after the column.

As much as Bochy has done (and it's a lot considering the amount of credit he gets), he is really more of a vetrans coach then a developer of young players. He was brought in because he could handle the Bonds aftermath without complaining and to pacify the media with his deflective persona after the KNBR/Felipe Alou flap. He may merit consideration for renewal depending on the results this season but not before those results are in. I'd have preferred to see a younger man at the helm after the 70 year old Alou. The team isn't in need of a father figure.

There is a lot of talk right now as to whether the Giants need to make a move/trade to bolster their roster for a stretch run or if the pitching and defense and timely hitting will be enough to get to and advance in the playoffs. I think they must and will make a move. If so it will be Sabean's last chance at a masterstoke which could signal he isn't as washed up as he seems around the league. He will be in charge of his own future then and he will decide whether he keeps his job or not when he makes those calls.

As evidenced by the early action in trades (especially the Braves lately) There are moves to be considered and statement that can be made right now for those who seize the opportunity.

Let's see what they do before handing them jobs on marginal improvements.
I wouldnt be surprised if Sabes screws this up. We need more than 1 bat, and not just a rent-a-bat. So far I do give him credit for not biting with our prospects or Timmy/Matt.
We need two producing bats. LF and 2nd base. We need two guys with .295/25/85 type power. I would really be happy with that.
Originally posted by BigRon:
We need two producing bats. LF and 2nd base. We need two guys with .295/25/85 type power. I would really be happy with that.

LOL.. Good luck on finding that.
Originally posted by LUser:
I don't know if you saw it in San Diego but the normally level headed Ray Ratto recently ejaculated this article one day before Bochy left Zito in to eat 9 earnies the day before the break.



http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...SPBG18MLRV.DTL


After reading I wrote a comment to him and said we should wait and see like Neukom planned all along. I really think Sabe's has his hands tied now and Neukom has to sign off on anything he may consider. Obviously the primo prospects are off limits in any deal and he'll make do with what they allow him to trade and hope to catch lightning.

In a way I feel sorry for Sabean under the last years of McGowan and a little sorry for Dusty Baker's plight at the end of 2002 despite his hubris.

Here's whatt I wrote Ray. (No reply) Wonder if he regrets the column.



In baseball circles Sabean is regarded as somewhat of a buffoon for his persistant gaffes in personnel decisions that have spanned these last 5 years of our descent intio mediocrity.

While he is rightly given a pass in not discussing the Zito deal (largely McGowans call) there's little to suggest his recent past decisions are the reason for the teams recent turnaround.

When you look back over them and his overall tenure in the job he hasn't made a stellar deal since Jason Schmidt. The fiasco's Ratto discusses regarding A.J., Benitez, Hillenbrand, require more than a flip dismissal as "being hamstrung by philosophy". After all doing your job means speaking up if you believe management is being careless or persueing the wrong course in development.

Certainly he WAS in the position of deferring to their wishes in keeping Barry the Ca$h Cow happy, but the endless string of overpriced broken down has beens he foisted on the payroll is laughable. From Eric Davis, through Dunston, to Ray Durham and a host of others- all have contributed less than their cost both on and off the field. Keeping Jose Castillo at 3rd for over a 1/2 season last year over Sandoval seems ludacris now and thinking Fred Lewis was anything more than a butcher in the field is even more distressing.

The off season moves including Renteria (8 Million) and supposed set-up man Howry (weakest in the pen) have been mediocre as well. Uribe has been a pleasant surprise in a limited role but he wasn't even rostered in spring. Other than the complete flame-out of Burriss and Frandsen he wouldn't even be on the team. He got a ton out of the Unit but we'll see how soon and at what strength he returns, and if you look at it the team has had vitually NO injuries or DL time to take away from their output.

If that is the kind of track record that requires renegotiation before the end of the season plays out, he's lucky to be still employed by the paper after the column.

As much as Bochy has done (and it's a lot considering the amount of credit he gets), he is really more of a vetrans coach then a developer of young players. He was brought in because he could handle the Bonds aftermath without complaining and to pacify the media with his deflective persona after the KNBR/Felipe Alou flap. He may merit consideration for renewal depending on the results this season but not before those results are in. I'd have preferred to see a younger man at the helm after the 70 year old Alou. The team isn't in need of a father figure.

There is a lot of talk right now as to whether the Giants need to make a move/trade to bolster their roster for a stretch run or if the pitching and defense and timely hitting will be enough to get to and advance in the playoffs. I think they must and will make a move. If so it will be Sabean's last chance at a masterstoke which could signal he isn't as washed up as he seems around the league. He will be in charge of his own future then and he will decide whether he keeps his job or not when he makes those calls.

As evidenced by the early action in trades (especially the Braves lately) There are moves to be considered and statement that can be made right now for those who seize the opportunity.

Let's see what they do before handing them jobs on marginal improvements.

Yeah I read that masterpiece. I grew up in SF and then in Burlingame. Family has had season tickets since 1987. I catch all the games now at PETCO and have the MLB package and read SFGATE everyday.

Lets not forget the JOE NATHAN disaster ala your earlier post of A.J. That is the one I think that really turned the Giants into a losing franchise. That idiot comes aboard and ruins the clubhouse and everything that was going right for this team. Now looking back we gave up one of the top 3 closers in the AL if not the game for that selfish moron and Liriano looked like he was going to be awesome till the arm injury.

I just think its time for change. The ship is pointed in the right direction. Due to the good old boys club in the front office our young prospects just seem to fester in the minors. With some of the talent we have other clubs would already have them on their rosters. We let them risk injury in the minors because they think they aren't ready. Well throw them into the fire, you have given them enough bonus money to be considered a big leaguer. Posey could be doing the same thing Whiteside is doing. Baumgarner needs to be called up not necessarily to pitch in August or Septemeber, but to sit next to R.J. and learn. If your not going to pitch him up here then all your doing is risking injury down there. Age does not matter. Cain did just fine as a 20 yr. There is no pressure on the kid from the fans or front office, what do you have to lose?

Hell bring up the SS from double AA (forgot his name, from UCLA) since your having tryouts on the big league club. Alderson? I know he can at least match Howry's garbage.

I just hope Neukom is smarter than the current record Sabean and Bochy have put up.
We aren't sellers, but I don't necessarily see us as buyers. The Giants are looking to keep every last prospect they have for the future. They are looking for trades that involve the extra baggage ie Fred Lewis...players whose roles on the team have diminished. It's going to be hard to be a buyer if a top prospect isn't involved.
Originally posted by ESaady:
We aren't sellers, but I don't necessarily see us as buyers. The Giants are looking to keep every last prospect they have for the future. They are looking for trades that involve the extra baggage ie Fred Lewis...players whose roles on the team have diminished. It's going to be hard to be a buyer if a top prospect isn't involved.

how did fred lewis go from a guy who was considered the future last year, to nothing this year! I still am shocked! I mean he never dropped soo many balls in the OF until this season...
Fred Lewis sucks he is a butcher in left field ( cost Giants and Cain ) a run tonight he strikes out a gazillion times and is too inconsistent. Nate Schierholtz is 10x the player Fred is (sorry Fred) JuggerNATE tore up tripleA pitching last year he could have been doing it in the majors. Now I am not saying he would have 300/20/90 rbi's but at the least this year he would have known the pitchers and been familir with what they throw. In my eyes Sabean and the front office should be held accountable for the lack of offense this year. In the offseason they could have signed Orlando Hudson and didn't instead chose to go with Burriss who up until last year had played in the minors for only half a season C'mon.
We arent buyers because short of the Pitcher Holliday there isnt anyone of value to buy. We are not going to depleat our farm system that is a top 5 farm system to get a rental for a possible playoff push. We needed to be on LA's heals to make that kind of move. We need to stand pat maybe trade a contract out for some decent prospects (Winn for someone). No one will take Molina his contract is done after this year and there is not a huge market for 36 year old catchers even with his bat. If we were going to make a big splash then we would have made it already. It is not going to happen for us at this point. Lets enjoy this team at home and tune out when they are on the road, everything will be ok then.