Tim Alderson for Freddy Sanchez

Originally posted by Giantjohn:
OK. Id do that in heartbeat. You are talking the greatest hitter we have seen. However, the Cards would laugh at the offer.

yea my bad on this one lol

i would love pujols

man im dumb

Originally posted by Giantjohn:
I knew these trades were bad but these numbers just support what I already know. Good job.

Thanks. I know my analysis isn't factoring in team strength, ball park, age, contracts, health, etc. But it's just amazing to me that such a simple analysis (that took me roughly 5 minutes to compile) can show that these trades were horrible (especially the Sanchez trade). I mean, really, what is Sabean getting paid to do?

has anyone seen sanchez's interview on csn?
some reason he seems not excited to be here
his answers were iffy
like when we brought up the extension idea he was like..well i dont want to shut down any options. i mean anything can happen but we will see what happens'' and he wasnt smiling..then iunno..
somethin iffy

Originally posted by Poncho707:
has anyone seen sanchez's interview on csn?
some reason he seems not excited to be here
his answers were iffy
like when we brought up the extension idea he was like..well i dont want to shut down any options. i mean anything can happen but we will see what happens'' and he wasnt smiling..then iunno..
somethin iffy

I don't think his agent really made everything clear to him and that's why I think that there's a contract stipulation being made on us controlling the terms and length of his deal beyond 2009.

He either waived the clause about the vesting incentive or put us in control on the terms.

That or he agreed to be put through waivers and sent to another contending team without the vesting or on the condition of the team acquiring him after the waivers are mandated.

Papa was really great in asking those pointed questions and the agent was vague as if he couldn't really discuss it.

Fishy that the agent was even here? How often do they need to be in on trades?

Clearly the Pirates made it known Alderson wasn't worth paying any of the vesting and that was on us. Hence the agent had to be here to make sure of the contract stipulations and sign off on them for us to pull the trigger.

There will be something revealed in time.

This is my final post on the issue.

The Giants have the best pitching prospects in the game. They do an unbelievalble job of finding the best pitching out there, period. For the front office to under value the system does an unjustice to them and us fans. andget raped come trade deadline time becuause there is need serious as a heart attck handicaps us. But for no reason should that be an excuse for us to become vunerable to just give those prospects away because we need a bat. We didn't even get a major league power bat in return. I was propsoing a trade that would have brought us a CY Young candidate to add to Timmy and Matty, much better than our return. And the possibility of trading that same chip next year to replish the sytem and for bats.

Good article by Kawakami...

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakam...o-give-up-imo/

Originally posted by CornsOnTheCob:
Yes please! lol

Unfortunately the Cardinals would hang up the phone.

I would do it in a heartbeat problem is the Cardinals would not

Originally posted by Giantjohn:
Good article by Kawakami...

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakam...o-give-up-imo/

surprised he actually made sense for once in an article i read from him.

Heard some things about Sanchez not being a great fielder. Decided to check out some numbers. I know fielding percentage isn't everything, but Freddy is 3rd among major league second basemen this year, and he was 5th last season.

2 errors this season in 410 chances.
7 errors last season in 653 chances.

Top 2 in the NL in double plays in each of the last 3 seasons.

Originally posted by Thizz415:
surprised he actually made sense for once in an article i read from him.

Yea, he has them from time to time. This one pretty much sums up my feelings about the trade exactly.

Originally posted by CornsOnTheCob:
SO, because I was interested (and because I enjoy numbers), I crunched the numbers on what the two trades we just made will actually give us.

I compared Uribe to Sanchez (presumed incumbent to replacement at 2nd) and Ishikawa to Garko (incumbent to replacement at 1st). Since both Uribe and Ishikawa have fewer at bats than their replacements, I extrapolated their numbers to what they would be if they had the same number of at bats as their replacements (assuming a proportional increase for each). Then I calculated the differential between what an extrapolated Ishikawa and Uribe would give us compared to Sanchez and Garko.

Well, here are the results:



As you can see, the gains we make by replacing the incumbents with the two new players are EXTREMELY MINIMAL. Also, note that most of the gains in the main categories (HR, RBI) are contributed by Garko, not Sanchez. Sanchez offers almost no meaningful statistical difference compared to an extrapolated Juan Uribe.

Now, the question is, would you rather have these modest increases, or potentially package the two players we gave away to pull in a better player? Consider that a package of Alderson/Barnes/Villalona or other players could have potentially pulled us Halladay or Cliff Lee (or Matt Holliday, etc). Both of these players offer extraordinary upgrades over who they would be bumping from the rotation (Sadowski).

Now, I know there are flaws in this...but just as a quick comparison, I think it really shows how crappy these trades were...

................

lol '

Hey I am not one that wants to sell the farm system and I was not for trading Sanchez for Sanchez but this is a good deal. Look at the facts Freddy is a solid gold glove type that has only committed 34 errors in his career. He is not an RBI and yes his average is a little low this season but this kid is only a few years away from a batting tittle. Meaning he gets on base, meaning he will give us someone for Panda to hit in. Not to mention that he is under contract for next year too, AND said that he would be willing to make SF his home. Alderson could be a great pitcher but when you look at the depth of our Farm system loosing one is not a bad thing. We are too deep (never thought I would say something like that about our Farm system) there are only 5 starting Pitching slots.
Getting a young outstanding Second Baseman is a good thing. He isnt going on the DL he will be fine in a day or two. I still believe that it is B.S's time to go after the season BUT he has been good this week I think that he has improved our team for the next few years.

Originally posted by CornsOnTheCob:
SO, because I was interested (and because I enjoy numbers), I crunched the numbers on what the two trades we just made will actually give us.

I compared Uribe to Sanchez (presumed incumbent to replacement at 2nd) and Ishikawa to Garko (incumbent to replacement at 1st). Since both Uribe and Ishikawa have fewer at bats than their replacements, I extrapolated their numbers to what they would be if they had the same number of at bats as their replacements (assuming a proportional increase for each). Then I calculated the differential between what an extrapolated Ishikawa and Uribe would give us compared to Sanchez and Garko.

Well, here are the results:



As you can see, the gains we make by replacing the incumbents with the two new players are EXTREMELY MINIMAL. Also, note that most of the gains in the main categories (HR, RBI) are contributed by Garko, not Sanchez. Sanchez offers almost no meaningful statistical difference compared to an extrapolated Juan Uribe.

Now, the question is, would you rather have these modest increases, or potentially package the two players we gave away to pull in a better player? Consider that a package of Alderson/Barnes/Villalona or other players could have potentially pulled us Halladay or Cliff Lee (or Matt Holliday, etc). Both of these players offer extraordinary upgrades over who they would be bumping from the rotation (Sadowski).

Now, I know there are flaws in this...but just as a quick comparison, I think it really shows how crappy these trades were...

keep in mind Garko and Sanchez will be on the team and producing after this season. Uribe wont be back, and Ishikawa isnt nearly as offensively inclined as Garko.

both were bad trades. i wish we hadnt made them, but the numbers you posted would only be as crappy as they seem if both Garko and Sanchez were rent-a-players centered only around this season. 2 bad trades. shouldnt have been made, but to say uribe=sanchez and garko=ishikawa based on some projected 2009 stats makes the deals look way worse than they were.

Originally posted by NorCal:
Hey I am not one that wants to sell the farm system and I was not for trading Sanchez for Sanchez but this is a good deal. Look at the facts Freddy is a solid gold glove type that has only committed 34 errors in his career. He is not an RBI and yes his average is a little low this season but this kid is only a few years away from a batting tittle. Meaning he gets on base, meaning he will give us someone for Panda to hit in. Not to mention that he is under contract for next year too, AND said that he would be willing to make SF his home. Alderson could be a great pitcher but when you look at the depth of our Farm system loosing one is not a bad thing. We are too deep (never thought I would say something like that about our Farm system) there are only 5 starting Pitching slots.
Getting a young outstanding Second Baseman is a good thing. He isnt going on the DL he will be fine in a day or two. I still believe that it is B.S's time to go after the season BUT he has been good this week I think that he has improved our team for the next few years.

I don't think anyone here is disappointed in Sanchez himself. He is a solid player, I think we are all up in arms about the fact that a couple weeks ago Alderson was one of the untouchables and to get him away from the Giants was going to take a solid power run producing bat. To find out yesterday it can only fetch a .296 6hr and 38 rbi guy is disappointing becuase the Giants need a bopper.