Tim Alderson for Freddy Sanchez

So with Sanchez what kind of lineup would you guys like to see for the rest of this year?

Originally posted by LUser:
Tim Alderson - S - Pittsburgh Pirates Toads (Farm) Wednesday Jul. 29, 2009
Pirates acquired RHP Tim Alderson from the Giants for second baseman Freddy Sanchez.
It's surprising that the Giants surrendered Alderson, the 22nd pick in the 2007 draft, for Sanchez. Alderson was ranked as the 60th best prospect in the game by Baseball Prospectus prior to this season. He was 7-2 with a 3.65 ERA in 18 starts combined for Class-A San Jose and Double-A Connecticut. Alderson, 6'7" and 210 pounds, has a low 90s fastball with an excellent curveball and good command. He should be a fixture of the Pirates rotation for years to come. Jul. 29 - 9:29 pm et

lol a fixture in the pirates rotation for years to come? just like ian snell, tom gorzelanny, sean burnett, zach duke, etc.....riiiiight. the pirates will do to alderson what they do to all their pitching prospects. botch it up.

both deals we made kind of sucked. at least the garko one made some sense. hes still relatively young at 28 heading into his prime. has some pop. and is under team control for 3 more years. plus all we gave up our 9th best prospect.

this deal is horrible. we gave up our 4th best prospect for a light hitting, 31 year old, 8 million a year in 2010 2B who is ALL batting avg. he does nothing else. he made the all star team 3 times because he was the best pirates player, and someone had to make it. the deal is a total joke. sabean is just trying to save his own neck by winning this year.

Originally posted by SFGiants55:
lol a fixture in the pirates rotation for years to come? just like ian snell, tom gorzelanny, sean burnett, zach duke, etc.....riiiiight. the pirates will do to alderson what they do to all their pitching prospects. botch it up.

both deals we made kind of sucked. at least the garko one made some sense. hes still relatively young at 28 heading into his prime. has some pop. and is under team control for 3 more years. plus all we gave up our 9th best prospect.

this deal is horrible. we gave up our 4th best prospect for a light hitting, 31 year old, 8 million a year in 2010 2B who is ALL batting avg. he does nothing else. he made the all star team 3 times because he was the best pirates player, and someone had to make it. the deal is a total joke. sabean is just trying to save his own neck by winning this year.

Did you expect him to just throw his job in the ****ter?

He asked for the leeway to do this deal and I still believe he had to get Sanchez and his agent to sign off on the plan to forego the vesting option in favor of an extension by telling him the free agent market dried up this year and it would be wise for him at 31 not to have to test what he would fetch in 2010 or 2011.

If it happens any other way I would be floored that Neukom let him do it.

What else but the health issues could have taken so long?

This is my guesstimate.

Sanchez/Agent agreed in principal for the framework of a 2 year + 1 option deal beginning next year.

He is foregoing the vesting option as long as were in the hunt.

If and when we drop out he goes on the DL and doesn't make the option. We offer him the deal we want of let him walk as a F/A.

That or he is waived and traded to another team he can help at the waiver/post season eligibility deadline.

So we either get him cheap for 2-3 years or we gave up Alderson for nothing at all.

If we make the playoffs with Sanchez, Sabes will be renewed if we don't he'll be gone.

Originally posted by LUser:
Did you expect him to just throw his job in the ****ter?

He asked for the leeway to do this deal and I still believe he had to get Sanchez and his agent to sign off on the plan to forego the vesting option in favor of an extension by telling him the free agent market dried up this year and it would be wise for him at 31 not to have to test what he would fetch in 2010 or 2011.

If it happens any other way I would be floored that Neukom let him do it.

What else but the health issues could have taken so long?

This is my guesstimate.

Sanchez/Agent agreed in principal for the framework of a 2 year + 1 option deal beginning next year.

He is foregoing the vesting option as long as were in the hunt.

If and when we drop out he goes on the DL and doesn't make the option. We offer him the deal we want of let him walk as a F/A.

That or he is waived and traded to another team he can help at the waiver/post season eligibility deadline.

So we either get him cheap for 2-3 years or we gave up Alderson for nothing at all.

If we make the playoffs with Sanchez, Sabes will be renewed if we don't he'll be gone.

If that is truly the case then I hope we dont make the playoffs and he is fired. That would be the best thing that could happen for the long term.

Originally posted by 24wyz2bthebest:
How do you go from a solid trade for Garko to a terrible one like this?

WTF? Right when I started to give him props.

LOL I TOLD YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Lincecum55:
people would be pissed if we didnt trade for somebody, i think it was a bad move yes but we got a proven .300 hitter to replace our weakest position with uribe at second.

Not the people who have a clue. Many times the best trades are the ones you dont make. Sabean panicked and gave in to a demand that I bet Pittsburgh did not even think that Sabean would do. LOL. What a ****ing idiot.

Anyone who thinks this is a good trade is as clueless as Sabean.

oh yeah bad trade, we got a guy that can help us everyday unlike a pitcher helps us every 5th day, not to mention i doubt he will ever become a cain or lincecum, also not to mention we loaded with pitching prospects still with pucetas bumgarner and wheeler, oh please stop the hating and give me a break.

Originally posted by Giantjohn:
Not the people who have a clue. Many times the best trades are the ones you dont make. Sabean panicked and gave in to a demand that I bet Pittsburgh did not even think that Sabean would do. LOL. What a ****ing idiot.

Anyone who thinks this is a good trade is as clueless as Sabean.

To your other comment, Sabean isn't just in panic mode he's in Ass in the Sling mode.

He couldn't afford to pull a "Not Make" and rest his job on that by saying " Wait two years and see" "You''ll be glad you you did", "Trust Me".

The only thing he could have done is hold the dealt cards or mucked and moved on to another deal.

My problem is he never allows the other shoe to drop.

Suppose he was savvy enough to raise issues with the Balky knee problem, let Sanchez fly back to Pitt or wherever with his agent and then make a couple of off-hand calls to certain uninvolved GM's complaning

"I even offered Alderson and still NO DEAL."

Word would be out to everyone and tomorrow 5 messages "wanting to discuss so and so for Alderson."

No he just says "let me have access to Alderson so we swing this."

Fred your absolutely right why only get Freddy Sanchez we probably could have gotten V-Mart or Dan Uggla for Tim Alderson granted we would have giving them a few third tier prospects also. Brian IF you read these GO **** OFF somewhere

Originally posted by Poncho707:
wow
some people have no clue what they are talking about
ok we can do that trade and have doc for a year. ok. well then hes gone

ok.

then we dont have 2 of those pitchers and our pure stud very young 1b of the future.

This might be the funniest post of the year given who its coming from.

Lets see: Would I rather have Garko, Sanchez and Villalona or Doc Halliday. Wow.. let me think about that. Ummm.. no brainer. I'd take Halliday. Garko is fair at best, Sanchez is a 30 year old singles hitter with a bad knee. and Vilalona while a very good prospect is at LEAST 3 years away and having a so so year.

We would have controlled Halliday for another year and would have been able to move him for nice prospects next year if we needed to.

I would gladly have played Ishy at 1b and Velez/Uribe at 2b and have Halliday,Lincy, and Cain going 1-2-3.

I know one thing.. SD knows a lot more about baseball than you do so I would not be so quick to say that he has no clue.

Originally posted by Lincecum55:
oh yeah bad trade, we got a guy that can help us everyday unlike a pitcher helps us every 5th day, not to mention i doubt he will ever become a cain or lincecum, also not to mention we loaded with pitching prospects still with pucetas bumgarner and wheeler, oh please stop the hating and give me a break.

No one ever claimed he would be Lincecum or Cain as far as I know. He doesnt have to become that good to make this an awful trade. You dont even consider that Sanchez will make BIG money next year, is a singles hitter with no power and no speed, and has a knee that is less than 100%. Wheeler hasnt even signed yet, Pucetas is so lightly thought of that the Giants wont even call him up, and young pitching is at a premium in this league. We used to be pretty loaded.. now with Alderson and Barnes gone we arent loaded at all.

As far as giving you a break.. well dont read my posts if you dont like them. Sorry if they are upsetting to you.

Originally posted by Giantjohn:
This might be the funniest post of the year given who its coming from.

Lets see: Would I rather have Garko, Sanchez and Villalona or Doc Halliday. Wow.. let me think about that. Ummm.. no brainer. I'd take Halliday. Garko is fair at best, Sanchez is a 30 year old singles hitter with a bad knee. and Vilalona while a very good prospect is at LEAST 3 years away and having a so so year.

We would have controlled Halliday for another year and would have been able to move him for nice prospects next year if we needed to.

I would gladly have played Ishy at 1b and Velez/Uribe at 2b and have Halliday,Lincy, and Cain going 1-2-3.

I know one thing.. SD knows a lot more about baseball than you do so I would not be so quick to say that he has no clue.

dude wtf are u talking about?
ur totally misunderstanding my point

i wouldnt trade our future for a guy for 1 year

villalona will be a major impact on our team in about 2012/2013
imagine the lineup with Posey/villalona/pablo as the 2-3-4 or middle of the order batters

im not saying doc isnt really good
im just saying i wouldnt trade alderson/villalona/someone else for him

does anybody else here agree with me or am i alone on this???

Originally posted by Giantjohn:
No one ever claimed he would be Lincecum or Cain as far as I know. He doesnt have to become that good to make this an awful trade. You dont even consider that Sanchez will make BIG money next year, is a singles hitter with no power and no speed, and has a knee that is less than 100%. Wheeler hasnt even signed yet, Pucetas is so lightly thought of that the Giants wont even call him up, and young pitching is at a premium in this league. We used to be pretty loaded.. now with Alderson and Barnes gone we arent loaded at all.

As far as giving you a break.. well dont read my posts if you dont like them. Sorry if they are upsetting to you.

i just don't like negativitiy , we can't change whats done, should just support the guy and make the best of it . alderson would have been a 4th or 5th at best .343 era and tops out speed at 92mph , we didn't lose a whole lot, people need to stop thinking alderson is a world beater.

Originally posted by Poncho707:
dude wtf are u talking about?
ur totally misunderstanding my point

i wouldnt trade our future for a guy for 1 year

villalona will be a major impact on our team in about 2012/2013
imagine the lineup with Posey/villalona/pablo as the 2-3-4 or middle of the order batters

im not saying doc isnt really good
im just saying i wouldnt trade alderson/villalona/someone else for him

does anybody else here agree with me or am i alone on this???

I've paraphased Joe Morgan before as saying "I like Major Leaguers".

Halladay is the most consistant pitcher to come along since Greg Maddux and has better stuff.

He rarely breaks down, is reliable start to start, completes games to save the pen, works at his craft and has never had a hint of mental, off field or chemistry issues.

To have two years of him mentoring the staff we have and the younger ones we want to groom with the tools of professionalism, consistancy, and work ethic is worth the price of Alderson/Villalona/Insert name.

If you can convince me Villalona at 18 is a combo of Jose Reyes/Hanley Ramirez, a perennial 10 year allstar, by watching him now then I may think twice. or Thrice. and maybe say no. But not if I'm Brian THIS year.

Originally posted by Poncho707:
dude wtf are u talking about?
ur totally misunderstanding my point

i wouldnt trade our future for a guy for 1 year

villalona will be a major impact on our team in about 2012/2013
imagine the lineup with Posey/villalona/pablo as the 2-3-4 or middle of the order batters

im not saying doc isnt really good
im just saying i wouldnt trade alderson/villalona/someone else for him

does anybody else here agree with me or am i alone on this???

SD said that he woiuld have rather packaged Barnes and Alderson with Villalona to get Halliday rather than using these 2 pitchers to get guys like Sanchez and Garko. I AGREE. I would much prefer that deal than the ones we just made.

SO you can go WTF all you want because I did not misunderstand what you wrote at all.

Villalona is not going to be close to being ready by 2012. He is a teenager and is pretty much struggling in A ball. Guys ike Neal and Kieschnick are doing MUCH better than he is at this point. How much is he the real deal? I'm not sure. Of all the Giants prospects I think he has the most hype that may not be fullfilled.

Getting Halliday and having a rotation of Lincy, Doc, and Cain would have given the Giants a REAL chance to win in the playoffs. This team has no chance. FUrthermore, he would be awesome trade bait next year if we chose to go that route.

Now.. mind you I didnt say I wanted to trade Villalona. I am just commenting that the trade that SD threw out is a HELL of a lot better than the crap that Sabean just pulled off.